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[john-thomas richards]

On Tue, Feb 15, 2005 at 12:42:34PM -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote:
[snip]
> > I agree.  We are to be about disciple-making, not
> > moral-but-going-to-hell-people-making.
> 
> No one said we aren't supposed to.

There is an attitude among many believers that we should be more
concerned about making society more comfortable (for them) than about
making and *being* disciples.  For example, in the 1990's, unmarried
cohabitation (read: shacking up) increased 125% in Arkansas.  Arkansas -
as a whole - is not at all (apparently) concerned with Biblical concepts
of marriage.  Well, Arkansas is not concerned about marriage between a
man and a woman.  They recently passed an amendment banning gay
marriage.  They are not *for* heterosexual marriage (that is why
shacking up increased 125%) but they are *against* homosexual marriage.
In Oklahoma, the divorce rate is 70% *greater* than the overall divorce
rate in America.  Again, Oklahoma (a *very* conservative state) does not
seem to be concerned with Biblical concepts of marriage - unless one is
talking about gay marriage which they just banned constitutionally.
What we have, then, is a couple of very conservative states that are
concerned (and rightly so) about the legalization of gay marriage but
are not at all concerned that heterosexual marriage is in deep trouble
as evidenced by the tremendous increase in unmarried couples living
together and the much higher divorce rate.  Will banning gay marriage
get anyone in to heaven?  Will outlawing lewd acts warrant salvation?
Will passing any sort of law banning any sort of behavior draw anyone
closer to God?  Perhaps our focus should be on living righteous lives
and preaching the Gospel.  Why should a gay couple listen to a bunch of
divorced people who are just shacking up talk about God's design for
marriage?  Why should they listen to the Gospel when the Gospel has no
apparent impact on the lives of those who profess to believe it?

(Feel free to respond; this is the last I will say on this issue.  I
have no desire to extend this discussion more than it has been.)

> > > In short, we share the Gospel that God might convert them. After that,
> > > we worry about the discipleship process.
> 
> And, you'll sometimes "loose" them. The same approach DOESN'T work on every 
> non-believer.

Lose them?  I am not sure what you mean.  Salvation is God's work.  I
present the Gospel; God converts.  Regardless of the manner in which I
present or fail to present the Gospel, salvation is God's work.  I
think, though, that I simply do not understand your point.  I guess I am
not sure what "approach" you mean.

[snip]
-- 
john-thomas
------
I believe that the first test of a truly great man is his humility. I do
not mean by humility, doubt of his own powers. But really great men have a
curious feeling that the greatness is not in them, but through them. And
they see something divine in every other man and are endlessly, foolishly,
incredibly merciful. -John Ruskin, author, art critic, and social reformer
(1819-1900)